‘I am a 100% politician’—what Siddaramaiah, Karnataka’s longest serving CM, said in 2017

Congress veteran and the longest serving chief minister of Karnataka, Siddaramaiah, handed in his resignation to the Raj Bhawan Thursday, drawing the curtains on a storied political career. Asked to resign by the Congress high command, he paved the way for deputy D.K. Shivakumar to succeed him.

Born 12 days before India became independent in 1947, Siddaramaiah was one of only three chief ministers of Karnataka to have completed a full five-year term.

Here’s the complete transcript of the interview, edited for clarity

Shekhar Gupta (SG): Hello and welcome to Walk The Talk on this beautiful Bangalore afternoon. And my guest today, Mr Siddaramaiah. Can I describe you not just as chief minister of Karnataka, but a 100 percent politician?

Siddaramaiah (SR): Yes, I am a politician, no doubt on that. When I am in any political party, I must be 100 percent politician.

SG: 100 percent politician. 

SR: Yes, I am 100 percent politician.

SG: But there are politicians, who are politicians 20 hours a day, 18 hours a day, 16 hours a day, 23 hours a day. You are a politician 24 hours a day.

SR: Not like that, not 24 hours politician, I am not 24 hours politician.

SG: Because your mind always…

SR: Yes, of course it is there, since responsibility is very huge, responsibility on my head. But I must be always thinking about the development of the state, development of the party’s functions and all that we have to do.

SG: When you say big responsibility on your head, what is bigger responsibility? Chief Ministership of the state or the fact that you are one of the two Chief Ministers who lead states of any size for your party?

SR: See, of course, as a chief minister of the state and also our commitment to develop the state, those who are deprived of opportunities in the society since a long time, they should be brought to the mainstream of the society for which we are striving hard to give social justice and equity to such people.

SG: But what about the fact that your party is now so diminished? Only two major states, Punjab and Karnataka.

SR: Congress, we can’t say that the Congress is diminished. Congress is defeated in many states, it doesn’t mean that the Congress is diminished.

SG: Defeated doesn’t mean diminished?

SR: No. In 1977 also Congress was defeated. It came back again in 1980.

SG: But that defeat was not like this. That was not 44 seats.

SR: In 1980 BJP got only two seats. It came back. Today it is ruling the country.

SG: But BJP had Advani and Vajpayee who rebuilt it and who found a big cause, temple, etc.

SR: Congress party is a strong political party in the country, with a strong base in the country. That is why I said Congress party is not diminished, it is defeated. It will bounce back in the coming next Parliament election.

SG: You are an 8-year old in Congress party, 9-years old?

SR: 10 years. I joined Congress party in 2006.

SG: Ok, so 10-years old. Our last conversation was in 2013. I think that you were about 6 to 7-years old in Congress party. What has been your learning on your party? What is it that is strong about the party? What is it that is weak, that the party can improve?

SR: No, Congress party is strong as far as the ideology is concerned, committed to social justice, committed to secularism, committed to strong democracy. These are the plus points of the Congress party. And Congress party is having a cadre throughout the country.

SG: And what are the weak points?

SR: Weak point means our workers, we have to enthuse them. Congress party is a mass party, it is not cadre party like RSS and BJP. Of course the cadre is not there, we have to build the cadre.

SG: So are you building the cadre in your state?

SR: Yes, in Karnataka we are building.

SG: Can you motivate them?

SR: Yes, we are motivating them. We have constituted all booth level committees, we have appointed booth level agents, and all booth level workers are working at the village level, at the booth level. Now the cadre is strong.

SG: Because most people in India don’t realise that you founded an ideology of your own also.

SR: Ahinda means the people who are deprived of their rights.

SG: Bahujan Samaj?

SR: Bahujan Samaj is different, Ahinda is different.

SG: No, but you know, Kashiram said vote hamara, Raj tumhara nahi chalega.

SR: No, not like that. See the people who are denied their due share, their rights.

SG: So Ahindas are backwards, Dalits and minorities.

SR: Minorities, and the poorer sections of the society.

SG: And how do you say this in Kannada, Ahinda?

SR: Alpasankhyatru, Dalitru and Hindurgauru. Backwards, Dalits and minorities.

SG: And you represent personally a very backward community.

SR: Yes, I represent Kurpa community. It’s a backward community. Of course it is 7 percent in Kannadiga population.

SG: So sir, do we get a sense that regionalism or Kannada, Karnataka identity is going to be your answer to Hindutva now?

SR: No, that is not the answer to Hindutva. Our developmental works and our achievements and the promises we have made to the people… we have fulfilled most of the promises and that is the answer to Hindutva.

SG: But see, a few things. See the response to, see the action and response that your government had on the Hindi issue. Especially on the metro.

SR: That is, Government of India has written a letter to put Hindi also along with Kannada, English and Hindi also. Of course there is three languages formula in the country, but our opposition is not to impose Hindi on anybody—to learn Hindi or to speak Hindi like that. Because it is a federal state. Each state having their own language. And that is paramount as far as their state is concerned.

SG: So you are going to be firm on that?

SR: Yes, yes, I am firm on that.

SG: So you will not follow instructions from the centre to put Hindi there?

SR: No, I don’t say that we don’t follow the instructions given, but they should not impose.

SG: They should not give you instructions?

SR: They should not impose.

SG: But do they have the power to give you instructions? To give you orders and impose?

SR: Since Hindi is not an accepted national language. Of course it is one of the languages in three languages formula. But we are not opposing it.

SG: It is an official language, not a national language.

SR: Yes, it is an official language in many states.

SG: Right.

SR: In majority of the states. But it is not a national language.

SG: Your Hindi is not very good.

SR: Oh, very poor.

SG: Very poor. Your English has got better I have noticed in the past three years, four years.

SR: Hmm.

SG: But do you resent Hindi or imposition of Hindi?

SR: I oppose imposition of Hindi.

SG: You resent it. So that becomes one issue. So did you instruct your metro authorities to wipe out, to hide the Hindi?

SR: No, I have not instructed.

SG: So, who did that? They put tape over the Hindi names.

SR: In Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Andhra, Maharashtra, they have not put Hindi in the metro stations. Likewise in Karnataka also…

SG: Why should they put?

SR: Yes.

SG: So that was your view?

SR: Yes.

SG: So did you tell them that?

SR: I didn’t tell them. They only took a decision.

SG: They found out.

SR: Hmm.

SG: Now the second thing is this state flag. So where does the idea come? I know that. I see the big smile on your face.

SR: No, one Mr Patil Puttappa, who is a senior journalist, he is 90-years-old… who gave a representation to this. The flag is already there. The Kannada activists, they are using this flag. That yellow and red color flag. It is there already since 1966. They have been using it.

SG: When the state was created.

SR: Yes. In 1956 the state was created. In 1966 the flag came. So they have been using it. They have given a letter. To give a stamp on that. So I have constituted a committee. That committee has yet to give a report. So I have asked the committee to look into legally and constitutionally.

SG: So have you asked the central government about this as yet?

SR: No, no.

SG: But what is your own view? You see any problem with it?

SR: If any state has their own flag, I don’t think it is against the provisions of the Constitution. Constitution does not prohibit. There is no prohibition to have any flag of any state.

SG: And you don’t think Indian national interest is compromised by a state having a flag?

SR: No, no. So that remains. The sovereignty of the country and integrity of the country. All those things remain. The national flag flying high. Always. And the state flags always below the national flag only.

SG: Right. So you don’t feel insecure also about the fact that Kashmir has a flag of its own?

SR: That is having a separate thing. In the Constitution status they are having. But the other states can also have.

SG: But you don’t feel insecure about it? Because many people are very angry that why does Kashmir have a flag of its own?

SR: No. I don’t feel insecure.

SG: You don’t feel insecure. Right. So this is where we now come to an interesting point.

SR: Yes.

SG: How is your definition of nationalism different from that of Mr Modi’s?

SR: See they are pursuing the hidden agenda—Hindutva. They are not frank on that. Whatever they speak in the public and whatever they practice. And they are totally different. They are having their own hidden agenda. Hindu Rashtra. Hindutva. All these things are there. They are pursuing it. See the BJP is a divisive force.

SG: But these issues are very strong in your state also. In your coastal districts, there is a Tipu Sultan issue.

SR: No, no, no.

SG: There is a beef issue.

SR: They are not at all serious issues in Karnataka. Whether it is beef issue or Tipu issue, they are not at all serious issues in Karnataka. In coastal area of course, there are RSS and Bajrang Dal, Sriram Sena.

SG: But coastal areas even Muslim extremist forces are there. PFI.

SR: PFI is also working. It is also a communal organisation.

SG: And very similar to RSS. They wear uniform. Carry out drills.

SR: Yes. That should not be allowed. But, that is why we are keeping vigil on both the organisations—RSS, Bajrang Dal and also PFI.

SG: PFI.

SR: Nods.

SG: How has PFI grown like this lately?

SR: Only because of this BJP and RSS.

SG: You mean as a reaction to that.

SR: Yes. As a reaction to that.

SG: But you don’t think that, because this state has been ruled by BJP. For BJP it is very valuable. It is the only southern state they directly ruled.

SR: They ruled for five years. It was a misrule. And lot of corruption was there. And you know some of the ministers have gone to the jail also.

SG: But you see next year you see them coming back?

SR: No they can’t. In Karnataka they can’t come to power. Because people, they can’t forget their misrule and corruption. And they have no vision at all for Karnataka. And no programmes have been done.

SG: Because since 1985, no chief minister has won power a second time in Karnataka. In succession.

SR: In succession two chief ministers successfully won.

SG: In the past.

SR: In the past. Another is Ramakrishna Hegde. Both chief ministers.

SG: Hegde also benefited from the Rajiv wave at that time. Immediately after the wave.

SR: So there is anti-incumbency against Congress government then 1993. Janata party and a section came out from Congress party under the leadership of Mr Bangarappa. They all joined. So, they fought against the Congress party under the leadership of Janata party, came to power.

SG: So you think you can break this trend next year?

SR: I am confident. I am fully confident Congress will come back to power.

SG: And you will be chief minister or it will be someone else?

SR: That is for the Congress high command to decide.

SG: So that’s why BJP has taken away one of your former colleagues.

SR: Who?

SG: SM Krishna?

SR: See SM Krishna has enjoyed all powers in Congress party. After that he left Congress party. After he left Congress party, two by-elections were held. We won both by-elections. That is if from ISO district only.

SG: So why has the BJP accommodated him and why has he decided to go to BJP at this age?

SR: Still I do not know why he has left Congress party and why he joined BJP party. I do not know. Because, Congress party has given him everything.

SG: But he says he felt humiliated by the Congress party.

SR: I think he was in Congress party for 50 years. Now he will come out by saying that he is humiliated.

SG: Obviously he is blaming Rahul, not Sonia.

SR: I don’t think so. Because he has been in Congress party since more than 40 years, 50 years. See Rahul, he cannot be humiliated by Rahul Gandhi or anybody else.

SG: What is your own experience of dealing with Rahul Gandhi? Because you know some of your colleagues, Himanta Biswa Sarma, some of the others have blamed Rahul, saying that he is arrogant, he doesn’t give you time.

SR: He is very good with me. He is very friendly, very good with me.

SG: What are his strengths?

SR: Strength, he is young and energetic. Country needs such people.

SG: And what are his weaknesses?

SR: Of course, still he has to…he will emerge according to me. In Indian politics, he will emerge definitely.

SG: But do you have a suggestion for him as a more experienced politician?

SR: No. See, whenever there is a meeting, we will give our views. How to go about, how to build the party, how to react to this divisive process in the country like that.

SG: But do you have a suggestion on his style? His method of leadership, his style of leadership?

SR: It’s okay, no problem.

SG: His long absences?

SR: See, sometimes he goes, everybody goes. Somebody, everybody needs interval during politics.

SG: No, but when your politics takes an interval, there is a problem. You can take an interval. Because Sharad Pawar said that it’s okay for him to take holidays but he should make them shorter and he should keep people informed about what is happening, where is he, what is he doing.

SR: Party knows it.

SG: Party knows it, but people don’t know it.

SR: Party knows it, people know it.

SG: But party should tell people.

SR: Yes, party should tell people.

SG: So sir, you have been making headlines, your state has been making headlines lately, even for issues involving politicians from your neighbouring states with which you have many issues, like Tamil Nadu. This whole Sasikala in the jail story—what is the reality?

SR: I don’t think much comforts have been given to Sasikala. But that DIG of prison…

SG: You don’t think anything special has been given to her?

SR: No, no, no, nothing special has been given.

SG: Your information tells you that.

SR: No, no, I have not visited, but according to my information, no special.

SG: No special privileges. So then what happened? Why did this controversy come up?

SR: That is why I have ordered an enquiry. After getting the enquiry report, the truth will come out.

SG: But what about this woman officer? I mean we are calling her a whistleblower now, who made this report public and then you removed her. Looks like you victimised her.

SR: No, transfer is not a punishment always.

SG: Transfer is the only punishment you can give?

SR: No, no, it is not a punishment. Transfer is an administrative matter. Transfer is not a punishment. She is transferred to Bangalore city only. From prison to Bangalore prison to Bangalore city only.

SG: But you have removed her from that particular job.

SR: It is because we have removed both because enquiry is going on.

SG: I see.

SR: Enquiry should not be… (inaudible)

SG: So you removed her and her boss?

SR: Yes. Both, both of them and another one also. DIG also I have removed.

SG: So, do you approve of what she did?

SR: No, she should not have gone to the press.

SG: Everybody should come to the press.

SR: She should not have gone to the media. Because the service conduct says one should not go to the press, media and making the report, whatever report she gives, making it public and all those things. Particularly in police department, discipline, you have to maintain discipline.

SG: Are you going to then proceed against her or are you going to let go now of this issue? Are you going to punish her, for going to the meeting?

SR: No, no, I have appointed one senior IAS, retired IAS senior officer. He will look into all this, whatever report she has given and make allegations in the report. He will look into all these things and he will give the report shortly.

SG: But you will make sure that Sasikala is given no special privileges in your jail.

SR: No.

SG: Because she is under your detention. You are hosting her in your jail.

SR: You only filed appeal against the judgment of the high court, against Jayalalithaa and Sasikala.

SG: So you will make sure that she is not given anything special.

SR: No, we will not. She will be treated like other inmates only.

SG: Same uniform, same dress, same lifestyle. No VIP culture in your jail.

SR: No, no, no VIP culture. No VIP culture. No special privilege to her.

SG: And what will be your next big move now? You have already done the flag, the language. What is your next big move going ahead to the elections?

SR: We are going to the people. I am a people man.

SG: That we know.

SR: We will go to the people, with our developmental work.

SG: You saw this statement that your neighbouring chief minister made the day before yesterday in Goa, that if we are short of beef, we will get it from Karnataka?

SR: Where is the beef in Karnataka?

SG: But he said that. He said if there is a shortage of beef in Goa, I will import from Karnataka.

SR: If beef is available, let him take. We will come in the way. If beef is available in Karnataka, let him take. We can’t prohibit.

SG: But is beef available in Karnataka?

SR: No, no. I don’t.

SG: You don’t, you don’t allow. Karnataka has banned cow slaughter.

SR: Cow slaughter is there. We are having our own act, Cow Slaughter Act. In 1964, we have passed an act. It is there.

SG: So, what does it say, your act?

SR: Those animals which are not useful, as milking animals, for agricultural operations, those animals can be slaughtered.

SG: And do you think it is a good policy for the other states also, for the rest of the country?

SR: It is better… See, it is an industry.

SG: Right.

SR: Lot of people are depending on this industry. Leather industry and farmers are also involved in this.

SG: Right.

SR: Lot of people are getting employment in this. And see, for example, a farmer, after he is old, become old, it is not useful for…

SG: Giving milk.

SR: Giving milk for agricultural operations. What he should do?

SG: Exactly. Can’t keep feeding it.

SR: Can’t keep feeding it. See, for animal, 15 kg of fodder is required.

SG: Per day.

SR: Per day. Farming community is going to be affected.

SG: Right. So, do you get worried about this anti-beef agitation? Not agitation, anti-beef campaign that is going on around the country. Also, restraints on cattle trade.

SR: See, they cannot prohibit the trade of cattle.

SG: Right.

SR: It is not correct also, according to me. See, old animals, the farmer has to sold them away.

SG: Right.

SR: How can we keep them and maintain them? It is not possible. But you can’t prohibit them.

SG: You can’t prohibit. So, do you see this becoming an issue in your state next year?

SR: No, I don’t think it is going to be an issue. Because, these BJP people in the last election only, they made it a big issue. It is not that… people didn’t consider this as an issue.

SG: So, in Karnataka, what will be the issue?

SR: The issue is only development of Karnataka.

SG: Because your party will be watching Karnataka. Because if they lose Karnataka, then they are left with just a much smaller state, Punjab. Half the size of Karnataka.

SR: The situation will not arise.

SG: I know that you are going to be busy for the next year, and looks like you will enjoy your politics.

SR: Not enjoying politics, but of course, I am doing the right thing. Whatever required in the state, I am doing and fulfilling those requirements.

SG: We will enjoy having more conversations like this. Thank you so much. 100 percent politician. The moment we talk politics, your face lights up.